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Post by Somak Meitei on Jul 12, 2014 13:37:39 GMT 5.5
Dear experts 'Survive' means 'to continue to live/exist in spite of danger...' With this meaning ,I wonder how the word is a transitive verb.I survived the storm= I did not die from the storm (word reference forum) so here I want to know why 'survive' meaning 'do not die from' is a transitive verb.So if it is a transitive verb, its passive form: 'The storm was survived by me' should retain the meaning of its active form, but it can't, why? There should be some logical ways to explain my queries, which will be the thing I want to know. Thanks
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Post by Thoithoi O'Cottage on Jul 12, 2014 17:21:43 GMT 5.5
"Survive" has two major senses (which can be extended into metaphorical senses) 1a. To live through a danger/hardship/accident/ordeal and continue to live/exist/last after the danger/hardship/accident/ordeal is all over 1b. To live through (a danger/hardship/accident/ordeal) and continue to live/exist/last after (the danger/hardship/accident/ordeal is all over) 2. Remain alive after the death of (a particular person) (Mark the object noun phrases (NP) are put within brackets in 1b and 2, but not in 1.) In sense (1a), "survive" is intransitive: 1.1 The wildfire destroyed the whole village, but she mysteriously survived. [She mysteriously survived = She lived through the wildfire.] In sense (1b), "survive" is transitive, because in this sense you don't just survive (live through), but you survive (live through and beyond) something (be it a danger, accident or an ordeal, etc.). In the transitive use of "survive", the information of the danger/accident is necessarily supplied by the object (O), while in the intransitive use, the danger/accident/hardship is provided in another part of the sentence or by other sentences, especially preceding ones. For clarity, compare 1.2 with 1.1. 1.2 She survived the wildfire (that incinerated the whole village). "Survive" is transitive in 2 as well, because a wife and her daughter don't just survive, but they survive the husband and father. But this sense is nearly always (except in specific cases there can be) expressed in the passive structure, as in 2.1, 2.1 Henry is survived by his wife and two daughters. but not 2.2. His wife and (his/their) two daughters survive Henry.
which is grammatically fine like "The road is walked on by people and animals", but nobody says so in normal circumstances. Back to sense 1b and se tense 1.2, mark the grammatical function of the NP, the wildfire. What element of a sentence is "wildfire" in this sentence? That is not the subject, the verb, an adjunct, and not a complement either. Thai is object of the verb "survive". As noted above, please mark the parenthetical presentation of the object NPs in definition 1b and 2. At the same time the grammatical categorical function of the definition should not be conflated with that of the word being defined, for definitions are more concerned with the meaning than the category (yes, some dictionaries are careful to make definitions closer also to the words' grammatical categories), and in most cases when you wrtie a sentence, you cannot grammatically correctly replace the words with their definitions. Finally, I'll add a very important point. You can technically write passive sentences for each and every transitive verbs. If you do it according to grammatical rules acceptable at the moment, nobody will say they are grammatically wrong, no matter how ridiculous and absurd they may sound. You can say/write, 3.1 It (the boar) has been hit by by me! (When you should be exclaiming, "I've hit it!") 3.2 The movie has been watched by me. (When you should say, "I've watched the movie.") 3.3. You are being called by mother. (When you should say, "Mother is calling you.") Thus, "The storm was survived by me" is grammatically fine but if you want to use "survive" in its sense 1b (not in sense 2, as if you were mourning the death of the storm, which is grammatically and absurdly (in the theatrical sense) fine), then you should rather say it in the active voice 4. I survived the storm. In usual circumstances, most transitive senses are expressed acceptably both in active and passive constructions, as are appropriate contextually. However, there are some transitive senses that are expressed always in the active voice in normal/usual circumstances as in 4, while there are some other transitive senses which are, in normal circumstances, always expressed in the passive form as in 5.1-3 5.1 He is being operated on. [Not The surgeons are operating on him. Your reply to an ignorant relative visitor when he asks after your father.] 5.2 She was murdered in her own room. (Nobody knows who murdered her.) 5.3 The murderer has been convicted. [If somebody does not know the legal mechanism, we have to explain, and having to explain necessitates saying many things unnecessary in normal circumstances. In such cases, dictionary definitions are one example, you use even strange (even weird) active and passive sentences among other things you don't say in normal circumstances.] A language is more than what its grammar gives.
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Post by Thoithoi O'Cottage on Jul 14, 2014 19:07:53 GMT 5.5
"Survive" (in sense 1b) is quite an unusual transitive verb in the sense that when 6. A survives B. it is B which exerts the hardship on A who struggles, which is quite contrary to the traditional definition of transitive verbs in which the object is described as being on the receiving end of the action. In surviving a danger/accident/hardship, it is the subject who struggles and suffers, and the idea of the hardship remain there looming large, as something too obvious or redundant to be the subject of the sentence. The point is we introduce or put more importance on the person who suffers (that hardship) over the hardship which is boring and serves as a piece of comparatively old information. Thus when the "B" occupies the subject's position in a passive sentence, the sentence feels too unbalanced--the storm is too emphasized and the sufferer's struggle is absurdly ignored. When you say *7. The storm was survived by him. you do not add no new information by the prepositional phrase "by him", and "the storm", as it has been the topic of the assumed discussion which our sentence forms part of, stands there as a very repetitive subject. Probably this psychological reasons may be behind our choice of active voice in the use of "survive" in sense 1b. You can also consider the subject-object relation in the use "kill", "murder" and "cross", as in 8. Darney kills Robin in a drunken fight. 8a Marlowe was killed in a drunken brawl in an inn. 9. He was murdered in the hotel. 10. They crossed the river twice today.
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